It is currently Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:56 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours



Forum rules


For discussion of equipment safety, with the purpose of constructively defining safety improvements - not for the discussion of event on-track driving rules or VKA Guidlelines - general forum rules also apply which are published on this website.



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
  Print view Previous topic | First unread post | Next topic 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:45 pm
Posts: 335
Location: Half Moon Bay, CA
Ernie, I remember that race, Matt Melby caught the guy in mid air. It was one of the Australian drivers, it was a single engine class, might have been control class. Pictures posted by Mike Collins on the 4 cycle web site. http://www.4cycle.com, 2cyc forum under Al Nunley, 1988 Grandnationals. Series of four pictures getting airborn and clearing a 6 foot cyclone fence.

As for brake tubing I use Parker Semi Rigid Nylon Tubing with a burst of 2500 psi, use a brass insert at the compression fittings so the tubing does not crimp, you should use the long compression nut with self aligning sleeves. As Jeff said, run two masters with two calipiers, this was mandiated on all dual engine karts in the 60's. But even with the best of engineering, things do break, pedal, brake rod, clevis etc. Keep an eye on and maintain the braking system, your best insurance.

This is a great fourm catagory. Thanks Jeff

Louie

_________________
VKA 061


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:00 pm
Posts: 637
It is being HIGHLY suggested that we use a teather on the brakes on our Enduros.
The teather is not meant to replace the brake rod, but to be there in the event that either the clevis pin comes out or rod brakes.
I have no problem with this little bit of added protection.
But how do you teather a Bendex brake??
Put a 40" piece of cable from the pedal to the brake arm?
I think not..
Before a decision is made, I how the Board or Safety Committee tests their decision.
Good Luck..
Rick


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 397
Location: new haven ct
WELL that question was answered in my favorite way.stories!!!
i guess in a track you'd go way deeper into a corner before you found the lack of brakes.

anyway TOM, i got it right this time i hope, wet grass or any grass kinda takes all the bets away. been there done that on a bike, aaand it ain't no fun

so a redundent ebrake won't be usable as i suspected because reaction time is too limited.
and the safest thing in that situation is judgement and experience.
so i'd hope everyone running in the faster classes has that. :roll:

i'd say the best safety is still the drivers responsibility.
if i do build up my margay dual i'll be adding a second rod to the pedal , toss the clevis and replace with a pinned bolt and i'd consider a tether though the cable slack in a tether not make the brakes work fully it would be better than nothing.

but on my older karts i'll just have to rely on keeping the kart perfect brake wise and good judgement as i won't be adding parts that weren't there.
since i'm not taking them to close to the edge hopefully that will be enough.

Jeff again a very cool topic and section
dave 8)

_________________
ddotto VKA # 277


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:21 pm
Posts: 760
Helmets are another area: Should be Snell, full fae and a proper (snug) fit.

The new Snell 2010 helmets will be out soon so suppliers will be dumping their old stock. Be Aware. cb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:51 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 928
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Charles,
Right, helmet fit is critical, most would agree it is the most important part of helmet safety. A poorly fit and poorly secured $600 helmet is not safe. Helmets can come of in an accident, for many reasons.

Anyone that takes the time to look, will notice the CIK does not mandate neck collars, one of the big reasons is for their concern about the neck collars interfering with properly fitting and securing the helmet. I can give a good personal example of this, I am sure others have many, when I ran at Quincy last month, I put my gear on at the grid, with the neck collar in place and my helmet on my head ... I didn't even realize my helmet chin strip had not even been fastened ... .and I didn't even notice what was wrong until I came off the track .... big OOPS! I am sure I would have noticed the strap dangling if the neck collar wasn't on. Anyway, we have to run the neck collars due to track mandated safety requirements in the US, just make sure your helmet is on correctly!


Jeff


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:58 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 928
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
david a luciani wrote:
..... i'd consider a tether though the cable slack in a tether not make the brakes work fully i...


Dave,
I would think in most cases, for most driver setups, the slack in the tether would be set up in a limited way so that the tether alone would be able to fully operate the master cylinder(s) it was linked to. One would just set up the brake tether this way from the get go. Of course, some tall drivers like me, we set the pedal way forward, so taking up the tether slack could result in the pedal, or foot, bottoming against the front bumper (ie brake not fully working!).

Jeff


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:46 pm
Posts: 169
Location: Corning, California
Put the helmet on first..........then the horse collar.

_________________
VKA # 131


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:07 am
Posts: 36
I have run vintage enduros in actual racing for 10 years, and done pre-tech on vintage and modern karts. Its the CIK ones that are scary with E clips instead of cotters. You cannot go wrong using aircraft hardware and practice. FYI, there is nothing wrong with correctly installed clevis pins. safety wire is NOT a substitute for a cotter pin. If you have a high powered kart, use muliple calipers and masters for a dual circuit set up. Restoration correct is not a substitue for safety, any kart run at speed should allow for better fasteners and brakes. One other thing not mentioned , if you make a brake linkage by theading a rod, throughly polish and/or anneal the threads, they have been known to break.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:21 pm
Posts: 760
remember: gear must adhere!

shoes must be tightly tied and gloves on tight as well: My gloves have an extra wreist strap to keep the on. Tempted not to tighten them as I get ready to suit up and leave the grid, but it assures that the gloves will remain on in an event of a "get off".

Ditto for helmets as mentioned above: chin strap snug!

I kept getting black flagged in a motorcycle track day because my helmet chin strap was so long it would flap and appear to not be sinched up! I made a point of tigenting up then tucking in the end! c


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:21 pm
Posts: 760
Snell 2010 helmets available 10/1/09. Significant improvement over old especially for kids. cb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:26 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 928
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
It's good to see that Snell has finally changed their position and is moving to less-rigid shells and softer liners, similar to the DOT and European standards. The new Snell standard also finally recognizes that kid's heads actually weigh less than adult heads, I've always wondered about the safety of many of the small size helmets, which are huge and heavy.

Everyone should read the article at the link below, don't assume spending more for a helmet makes it safer for a real person in real conditions. It was this article that help me make up my mind to buy the Z1R helmet I use.




...FYI - there is a page of Z1R helmets, ranging in price from $60 to $125, here at this page....

Jeff


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:03 pm
Posts: 322
Location: Odenton, MD
Great topic/forum/participation.

First, I'm new to the vintage scene (jointed VKA this year), but definitely can claim "vintage" status since I was active back in the early 60s. That's my way of apologizing to the die-hard or perhaps I should say hard-core "vintage"-minded members when I say: Safety First. If we had known then what we know now, many of us would have made the necessary safety changes before they resulted in injury and therefore making that safety change part of what we were doing … way back then.

Second, in one of my last races in 1965, I lost my breaks in an Enduro. I knocked out the brake linkage pin when my left rear wheel dropped off the edge of the pavement. The cotter pin was insufficient to hold it in place. There was no crash and the race was stopped for rain right after my incident.

I like the idea of a bolt/castle nut/cotter pin and plan on making that change before my next race.

Third, oil and water don't mix. I'm not a firefighter but haven't we all heard NOT to use water on an oil fire? Having a fire extinguisher handy is a must. I have one and everyone should make the commitment to have one. Perhaps, checking for a fire extinguisher should be (if it isn't already) part of the Tech Inspection.

Finally, "weld failure," in my opinion, will be the most difficult problem to address. Stress fractures in welds are more and more likely in vintage karts simply because there is more time for them to develop. Short of visual inspection, x-ray may be the only fool-proof method of identifying real problems with a weld. I'd be interested to know other options.

Good luck on this topic.

_________________
Rolf P. Hill- VKA #436
ODENTON, MD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagory
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:44 pm
Posts: 10
Hi Guys,

I am pretty new to Vintage Kart Racing, so I hesitate to throw my two cents in. But it must be said that when I realized how much Alky was around at these events, it occurred to me that buckets of water on the grid and in individual pits would be a real good idea. I even brought a bucket to a couple of events. But am ashamed to admit that it was never filled. Because nobody else seemed to have water buckets, I must have convinced myself that the concern was simply part of my nervousness over the event. From this point forward I am going to make a real effort to be attentive to having water in my pit. Does anyone else still have memories of a long time kart racer named Herm Johnson that made it to the Indy car series? He was on fire in the pits at Michigan for a really long time. Man the powder just did not seem to effect that fire. Once the buckets of water hit him the fire seemed to go out pretty quickly. Not that we need one, but another example is Rick Mears at Indy. As others have mentioned the fire from alcohol is invisable so the fire can become very intense before anyone realizes there is a problem. Bottom line on this one is the more buckets of water around the better.
Jeff this is a very important thread. We are all out to have a good time, but the most important thing is that we all get home safe.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kart Safety - initial posting for this new forum catagor
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:25 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Brampton (GTA) Ontario, Canada
Safety is mandatory! That's what this Forum section exists.

Many suggestions and chassis deficiencies are discussed and resolved here and to good effect.

BUT, when a kart and driver go onto to track WITHOUT being properly safety inspected then we will probably have a situation.

So, every practice that driver and mechanic must, must do a quick review and the Grid Steward must check again for that all important sticker. Break these rules and we will forfeit our right to race. Plus, put in peril all vintage karting activities on the track should there be a serious incident.

At Barnesville last month on Thursday I needed to re-mount a seat. It took a couple of hours and practice was well started. Went out inadvertently, NO SAFETY STICKER !! No one stopped me at the Grid !! Nothing was wrong but I got one as soon as I realized it.

The point is: We must never let any driver or kart onto the racetrack without their ...

WRIST BRACELET and SAFETY STICKER FOR THAT EVENT

CHECK THESE FREQUENTLY!

_________________
Colm - VKA # 475


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Style supported by CodeMiles Team.